Ohh tottaly number 2 there ...(pun intended)

I had someone tell me I needed to get a new TV, and I replied, naw I am on satellite I am good. To which they added, but that won’t help cause your TV is analogue.  ... I could only say,  you are wrong and walk away.

Oh that’s just total bull shit.  I don’t know about you jim, but if it had been me and I had heard him say that and caught it, I would have gone off on him.  Its complete bullshit and an insult to people’s intelligence to claim that.

This weekend I helped my dad with setting up his god-mother’s digital box.  She’s like 90-something and is not happy about needing it.  She still only uses an antenna and hell her tv is a console television.  Now that’s old. But she’s the type of person this asshole could potentially dupe into needing that crap for her tv.  Instead all she needs is a little piece of electronics the size of a cable modem connected between her antenna and tv.  It worked so she’ll be set for when the switchover comes.

Eh, Either one is plausible. Those guys are sent out with zero training whatsoever. It wouldn’t have been worth “going off” on him, seeing as there’s only a 50-50 chance he was being sly vs stupid. In these situations, I always give people the benefit of the doubt that they’re just stupid.

I spent the years between 2001 and 2007 as TV sales guy in both a big box store and a high end boutique so I do have some experience with dealing with providers, in my area at least.

Watch out for the TV sales people though, They’re all fucking dirty snakes. It truly is a race to the bottom in that business.

Ok supercore, I have to pimp your knowledge. I’m looking at getting a LCD 40-42 inch, can you give me some advice as to whats good and what to stay away from? I don’t have an HD DVD yet but I do have U-verse, comcast sucks. I’m looking for a good tv to play Wii on and keep as I upgrade my dvd etc.

Thanks.

If AT&T sucked, they’d be good for something. Terrible products, terrible customer service, and douchebag attitude to boot. They have some good reps if you’re a large company, but those poor guys are surrounded by incompetence and brutal amounts of bureaucracy.

100% off-topic: Of the various shows reviewed and tracked on this site, why no Top Gear? Yes, it’s on the Communist Channel (BBC America), but it’s main host Jeremy Clarkson is very politically incorrect and it’s the only automotive program or news source I know that’s reviewed the ability of a Toyota Prius to stop .50 caliber bullets (because they thought it was rubbish for everything else - they even concocted a legitimate test where the Prius had worse gas mileage than a BMW M3).

Top Gear rocks! Love it and all the hosts. Clarkson bashes the establishment is awesome manner. The RV race was also teh awesome!

This site Theo Spark Last of the Few has current episodes on his site. It is also worth a read, he sounds like a conservative in the socialist GB. He does post some maybe NSFW hotties, not nude but not wearing burkas either.

Ok supercore, I have to pimp your knowledge. I’m looking at getting a LCD 40-42 inch, can you give me some advice as to whats good and what to stay away from? I don’t have an HD DVD yet but I do have U-verse, comcast sucks. I’m looking for a good tv to play Wii on and keep as I upgrade my dvd etc.

Thanks.

Obviously I’m not all that knowledgeable about it, but I did just get a new TV.  40” LCD Samsung HDTV.  Early Christmas present that I will be paying about half for.  I haven’t gotten HD yet bet the picture quality from regular tv is decent.  I ran my DVD player through just normal connections and it looked very nice.  So make of that what you will.  Especially on an HDTV for under $1000.

mgn, my knowledge is a bit dated but some things never change. First, Stick to names you trust, mostly. If you’ve never heard of it there’s probably a good reason why. Stay away from the mitsubishis, hitachis, and sharps though. Lots of quality control issues in my experience. The best ones for the money are probably going to be from Sony, Samsung and LG. Don’t buy the entry level model but don’t buy the top of the line either.

The most important thing you can do is go somewhere other than a big box store. The lighting is bad and the feeds they have running are from an uncompressed data file in the back room. Also, Try to find a place where the guys work on commission. They’ll try to sell you a bunch of useless cables and warranties but they actually care if you return the tv because they sold you the wrong one.

All the content providers use some sort of compression and you want to be able to see how the tv you’re buying will actually respond to it. It makes a huge difference. So look for a place that has cable or Directv or something available on the floor to demo. My old store they tried to replace our DTV feed with pre-programmed footage so we all chipped in and bought a DTV system for the store anyways. Then we hid it when the DM came around. Our customers knew exactly what the TV should look like at home before they decided. Also, Ask them to hook up a blu-ray player to the tv you’re looking at to see what they’ll look like as well. These guys make 150-350 bucks per tv if they’re on commission. If they can’t or won’t do it, be very suspicious.

Awesome, thanks!

Just a sidenote regarding what I said about salespeople trying to sell you a bunch of cables… Don’t take it to mean that you shouldn’t buy ANY cables. If you don’t have a high end stereo, don’t bother buying any audio cables. The speakers in TVs are shit and spending $100 on an audio interconnect is worthless. Do spend the money on some HDMI cables though. Pretty much any TV today has at least 2 ports. Again, Don’t buy the radio shack bargain cables but don’t spend $250 on the silver oxygen-injected models either. Unless you’re picking up a $6000 Pioneer Elite or something along those lines you will NEVER notice the difference. A good rule of thumb is to take whatever you’re willing to pay for the tv and plan on spending around 5-10% more for the cables.

I can’t tell you how many upset customers I’ve had that are pissed cause their TV looked like crap and they’ve got it hooked up with Walmart brand RCA cables instead of HDMI or component. Replace the cables and voila! The TV looks like it’s supposed to.

A crucial bit of information about Monster Cable. Crucial, I’m saying.

@mgnmfrc1 As far as LCD TVs go, Costco usually has some pretty smoking deals. I’ve heard good things about the Vizio TVs; they tend to be about 30% less than Sony and some of the others. My understanding is that they tend to need a little bit of manual “dialing in” with brightness /contrast settings, but nothing that can’t be done in 2 or 3 minutes.

HDMI cables can be had for less than $10 on eBay. Unless you’re doing crazy long runs, they’re perfectly adequate. You should absolutely be using HDMI if you’re working with Blu-Ray.

I am a Costco member and I am looking at what they have but as super mentioned they don’t have the best display set ups to compare the pictures. I’m getting up on contrast ratios and brightness. Not sure when I’ll go to blue ray, need a TV first and since they are supposed to be cheap this year I’m trying to figure it out. It will be in my finished basement with minimal natural light.

HDMI cables can be had for less than $10 on eBay.

True. Again though, I’d really reccomend against going with the cheapest possible cable you can find just because it’s cheap.

I know, “blah blah digital blah blah makes no difference yadda yadda yadda” but when you do side by side comparison tests between cables there actually is a difference. Can everyone see it? Definently not. But it is there.

Oh, And I quit the game before Vizio started coming out in a big way so I can’t recommend for or against. Again, Use your eyes.

Again, The best peice of advice is: Go to a store where you can compare. Hell, for $10 buy a cheapo cable before you go shopping and see what kind of picture you get with it vs the more expensive cable they try to sell you. If you don’t see the difference tell em no thanks.

Another thing to remember is that in the Costcos and such all the TVs are at the default setting which is: Brightness at 100, contrast at nearly 100. Great for their showrooms but nowhere near what it will look like when you get it home.

Working in the Electronics department of Wallyworld, EVERY day, and I mean EVERY day, I have to explain to some uninformed older American why they do not need one of those boxes if: a. they have cable, b. have a satellite, or 3. so their dvd player will work. Seriously, for their DVD player. So the dude might be a tool, or he might just be an uniformed tool.

But not nearly as goofy as the woman who asked me how to get her Plasma TV refilled.

Oh, and Vizio is a great starter TV.  Great bang for the buck, especially the 42” plasma for around 650.

I’m not sure if I’m going to need one of those converter boxes or not.  I have cable, but I don’t have a cable box, so I’ve been thinking of getting one just in case.

I’m not sure if I’m going to need one of those converter boxes or not.  I have cable, but I don’t have a cable box, so I’ve been thinking of getting one just in case.

Muk, you won’t need one.  They are only for people who still receive their television over the antenna.  So if you have satellite or cable you are fine.

True. Again though, I’d really reccomend against going with the cheapest possible cable you can find just because it’s cheap.

I know, “blah blah digital blah blah makes no difference yadda yadda yadda” but when you do side by side comparison tests between cables there actually is a difference. Can everyone see it? Definently not. But it is there.

Well, here’s the thing. The cost to manufacture a good cable, package it, and ship it to the US is between $2 and $4. The cost goes up about $0.40 for the ultra-premium Monster Cable. So yes, it’s theoretically possible that you could get a cable put together by a crack addict working in a Tijuana drainage ditch, but the vast majority of the ones you get are serviceable. I’d put $100 that no test based on any empirical measurements could find a difference between the el-cheapo cables I’m using to carry digital signals 2 meters and the $150 Monster cable.

A little dirty secret about cables (hey, I used to work in retail, too): Cables are where the money is at. The reason no TV (or even the Sony Playstation) comes with an HDMI cable? It’s the same reason no printer will come with a $0.50 (bulk cost) USB cable: retailers will absolutely refuse to stock them. People price-compare the big-ticket merchandise (TVs and whatnot), and then turn around and get ass-raped on the accessories. I don’t blame the retailers for this; it’s their perfect right to make a buck. But it’s also the right of us consumers to get the best deal possible. And that’s usually a $10 HDMI cable on eBay. And if you get one that actually was put together by a crack addict in a Tijuana drainage ditch? Oh well, you’re out $10.

Well, you found their business strategy out.  Play on the fears and ignorance of the morons out there.

Not to beat the HDMI cable thing into the ground, but consider this also: HDMI is electrically identical to DVI-D used by computer monitors (which is one of the reasons why you can get DVI-D to HDMI adapter cables, and is how I plug my laptop’s docking station into my home theater system so I can put WinAmp audio visualizations on my TV at 1920x1080 - great for parties, especially when everyone is really drunk). If an expensive cable makes any difference whatsoever, why are they never so much as mentioned for high-end monitors or systems used by CAD engineers and graphic artists? Why are they never featured in any computer monitor reviews? The reason is because Monster hasn’t been able to spread their complete bullshit there… yet. Actually, I should delete this post…

All I know is that when I’ve done blind A-B comparisons between the cheap Walmart cables and the more expensive ones, people can almost always tell the difference. Almost.

If an expensive cable makes any difference whatsoever, why are they never so much as mentioned for high-end monitors or systems used by CAD engineers and graphic artists? Why are they never featured in any computer monitor reviews?

Is this potentially a case of holdover from the old computer days?  Let’s face it most computer equipment comes with the cord.  I mean could you imagine buying a mouse and then needing to purchase the connection wiring separately and hook it into the computer and mouse?  Old computer monitors were essentially the same.  The connection wire was actually a part of the monitor.  But now it comes separated but with the monitor.  That is probably a recognition of the fact that the wire could get ruined and it would piss people off to have to buy a whole new monitor, and why would they buy another of yours if a crap wire just cost them another $300.

All I know is that when I’ve done blind A-B comparisons between the cheap Walmart cables and the more expensive ones, people can almost always tell the difference. Almost.

That’s also done doing a back and forth look I bet.  Asking them “does that look good” on the cheapo they will probably still say yes.  So its likely a satisfactory to good HD cable.  The more expensive one is probably good to great.  And you could probably find a fairly cheap cable that would qualify in the good to great range as well.

Nope, At my boutique store we actually demoed this with two exact same model tvs right next to each other, in the exact same lighting conditions, set with the exact same settings from the exact same feed. No switching, no tricks, no nothing. I know this because I was the one that designed and setup the demo.

It was a very effective demo. As I said before though, There WERE a certain percentage of people that couldn’t see any difference and for those people the cheapo cables are a better choice. I’d say it was probably somewhere in the 10-15% range.

@supercore - It’s a subjective test, and subjective tests are notoriously unreliable with audio/video stuff. With analog cables, at least one could make an argument about slight loss of signal. With digital, you pretty much either have signal or you don’t. HDMI is packetized with error detection and correction built in to the protocol. You’re not going to have subtle variations of color or “richness” - you’ll either have small blocks of black or noise or you won’t. Even the most aggressive HDMI applications move about 4Gbps of data for a few meters over either 3 or 6 pairs of shielded, balanced signal cable with a reference clock. This is not much of a trick.

To put this in perspective, in the networks I work on the specifications allow us to run 10 Gbps for 100 meters over 4 pairs of unshielded, unbalanced cable with no clock. From an engineering perspective, shielding and signal balancing eliminate just about all of your errors. Adding a clock source makes it the electrical equivalent of impossible to screw up.

If there’s a difference in quality, it would be real simple for Monster or whomever to show hard numbers for bit error rate. They don’t do this because the differentiation doesn’t exist.

Nope, At my boutique store we actually demoed this with two exact same model tvs right next to each other, in the exact same lighting conditions, set with the exact same settings from the exact same feed. No switching, no tricks, no nothing. I know this because I was the one that designed and setup the demo.

It was a very effective demo. As I said before though, There WERE a certain percentage of people that couldn’t see any difference and for those people the cheapo cables are a better choice. I’d say it was probably somewhere in the 10-15% range.

My choice of phrasing may not have been the best.  I didn’t mean to imply you were attempting to trick anyone.  What I’m getting at is that even the people who could see the difference, likely if they were not to have any comparison they would look at the connection from the cheap wires and say “well that’s pretty darn good.”  They’d have been perfectly happy with the cheap ones because it would still provide a good picture.

buzz, definently agree. The picture with the cheap cables was definently not “bad”, it just wasn’t as good.

As far as the digital vs analog debate that Erik brought up, I totally agree that by virtue of being a digital signal the differences are going to be much less vs analog connections like component video and such. From my experience there was a subjective difference in video quality between different cables. All I was trying to say is that everyone should see for themselves whether there is a noticable difference to them and, if so, make your buying decisions based on that. And, If a sales guy isn’t willing to show you the difference first hand, don’t bother working with them.

Here’s a question to someone about the digital converter boxes.  They just ran the digital test on a few channels here but I only got the pass message on one channel, all the others I got the color bars with a message saying I need to prepare for the switch.  Anyone got an idea about that one?

Well folks, I am as you guys so kindly put it one of those snake in the grass att salesmen. First off yes, half the people who come to you door wont be selling it the next week, they are trained for all of 4 hours and then thrown on your street with almost no knowledge of what in the hell they are talking about. For those of us making $1500 a week selling uverse that have actually taken the time to research online and know what we are talking about then show enough gratitude to our customers to hand out our cell number to try to make sure the person is happy with what they get run into a whole different set of problems. Inept installers who will say any stupid bullshit they can think of. God forbid you have a problem with the service or don’t check everything before the tech leaves, you may find that your phone line has been cut, you have no service and that it will be a month before they will send someone back to POSSIBLY fix it. As a sales rep I have spent countless hours on the phone cutting through a pointless mountain of red tape screaming the c word at half of the outsourced call center reps with the proper education to be a whopper flopper at burger king trying to see customers problems resolved in a reasonable manner. it seems that att has put a product on the market and then placed a few select morons on computers reading off lines to common problems to insulate themselves from the crappy ass customer service they offer. On the up shot, their internet service is the fastest, their pricing is competitive and if you get installed and don’t let the tech leave before you check everything you should be ok. As to how this conversation started, in Feb. if you watch air tv you MIGHT need a converter box that the government will pick up the tab for, if you have cable or satellite you don’t NEED to do anything, and having a hdtv has nothing to do with a digital signal type. Just a few facts even managers in my office refuse to believe. If someone comes to your home and tells you otherwise, tell them to get the fuck off your porch.

it seems that att has put a product on the market and then placed a few select morons on computers reading off lines to common problems to insulate themselves from the crappy ass customer service they offer.

That’s standard for anything now a days.  I’ve dealt with several various customer service reps for technical issues.  And they have left me less than impressed.  I know they are designed to help the average idiot who can’t get things working right.  But when I call and start mentioning what’s going on, and their first step is to have me restart my computer to see if it fixes the problem, then I’m pissed off.  Even when its been something that’s acting a certain way before the last time I called and it was a problem on their end, they wouldn’t listen.  Customer service, isn’t.

But then again I believe jim once had a post about computer problems he was having, and the solution was to plug the thing in.